The following is from a discussion conducted on the www.swaylocks.com website, a forum for people interested in surfboards, surfboard shapes, and materials, and all things related. This thread ran in April of 2005 and deals with opening and operating a surfshop. The commentary is mixed (unfiltered and salty at times) but it’s a great read for anyone interested in setting up a small retail shop. The issues developed are particularly pertinent to sports-oriented stores in general but the lessons presented are germane to all retailers. TRIO does not subscribe to all the ideas presented here, but we do like our customers to step into the retail environment with their eyes wide open. Enjoy.

(Reprinted by permission from www.swaylocks.com)

Apr 26, 2005, 9:27 PM

How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

We have had this discussion before, but Doc and I were having fun with the idea of doing a series on surfshop ownership and the potential, pitfalls and etc.

Here is my first entry: If you have decided to open a surfshop, it is my opinion the first thing to remember is you are in a real business world where you can lose a lot of money if you make a very small mistake and the chances of making a lot of money is almost nil. However, you are for the most part not going to deal with people who act in a business like manner or think in business terms.

This certainly does not mean some have not made a mint owning a surfshop nor that true business people do not exist in the surfshop business and surf industry in general, but….

The first real question you might ask yourself is “Why in the world do I want to own a surfshop?” Take your time on this one, because you can save yourself a lot of money, if the reason is because you want to go surfing and enjoy the surfing lifestyle. You will not do much of either in the early years. It can be enjoyable if you have a true love for the art and are willing to simply get by for a while.

The thing to decide is what type of surfshop you want to own. One type is one that predominately sells surfboards and related items, with small amounts of non-name brand or your own name brand clothing. This type is out of the question unless you live in an area where the interest in surfing and population of surfers is high. Also: Unless you’re pretty well known and respected as a shaper or surfer and been around awhile, this type will be hard.

The other type and most common is a surfshop that is heavy on name brand clothing such as Quiksilver, Volcom, or Billabong and sells mostly advertised surfboards seen in magazine ads along with possibly carrying a local shaper or your own label made in China. More than likely you will carry pop outs from Surftech or the like.

If you go the second route, expect to drop a minimum of $40,000. You can start cheaper if you find a small location with cheap rent, but you’re asking for problems if it does not take right away.

You’re going to have to deal with something completely unprofessional called surf industry politics. This is where the older more established shop thinks he has the rights to all the surf business in your area and tells all of the majors (Quik, Volcom, Billabong, Hurley, O’Neill) not to sell to you or he will drop or seriously cut back on orders. There may be a great deal of yelling and screamin’ at the rep with you in mind. What this will mean is if you are too close (like the same city sometimes) these companies will give you a hard time about opening you up with their clothing. (Sounds stupid, huh?) If they do open you, it will be with the demand or expectation that you must give them a minimum order (usually between $2500 and $4000 depending on how much they feel like discouraging you). This is the one business in the world, where companies turn away good business because of ridiculous and boneheaded ego trips and lack of vision. It only works because it is still a fairly new industry. You will now find out first hand what it is like to deal with 45-year-old 15 year olds. These are people who are middle age with the critical thought ability of a 15 year old. Remember one thing about those in the industry: They will never forget a slight to their ego.

How to deal with surf industry politics: Don’t buy into it at all. Don’t talk about our competitors regardless of the bad things they say about your shop or you personally (and they will) Don’t dare give some company rep a minimum order. If that’s the only way to get the line. Pass and go to another line. Take my word for it: You can’t afford minimums in the early years.

Never ever trust or believe what a rep tells you. There are really good rep out there, but most of them are starving and will sell their young to simply stay in the surf business so they can remain a teenager for life. Even the good ones will push items on your store that you either don’t need or cannot afford. Keep it very basic in the beginning. If a major opens you, go deep with this line and use your own line to add flavor. Two solid lines will be about all you can afford and not look watered down. Keep it simple. T-shirts, sandals, boardshorts. Some hats. Do not go into other areas right away. Stay clear of shoes until you have learned the business well. There is no in between with shoes. You either go big or it’s best to leave it alone. Big means at least $10,000 just in shoe inventory. In which you will get a whopping 35% if you’re lucky.

If you cannot get a major line and you plan on being a surf clothing department store that carries boards (type two) then you may want to reconsider opening. Trying it with only the B lines and worse will waste your money, your time and eventually put you out. I know some that hang in there because they have a huge skateboard or surfboard business to keep the bills paid (barely) but most are simply living week to week and not paying taxes. Which brings up another point. If you think you can fool the Department of Revenue and not pay all of your sales tax, think again. They are smarter than you are and you will get caught. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. Or you will regret it. Do not believe what anyone tells you if they say different.

Stay clear of doing team guys. You will be tempted if you surf, but fight it off. Even a good loyal team guy is rarely worth the discounts on clothing and boards he obtains and 95% will jump ship at a dimes better deal. If it goes sour, they will run their mouth about you to anyone that will listen. Most go sour, so why bother? Let the other shops deal with this area. If what you have is worth its mettle, you will have real paying customers.

Discounts: Don’t give them unless something is put on sale, or even better have a sale rack and point. Once you start giving discounts you can never go back. Same with selling cheap surfboards.

Doc
Tony
Newbie

Apr 26, 2005, 11:39 PM

Re: [solosurfer] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

Discounted surfing related merchandise might benefit both the retailer and the customer by attracting more business because of the better prices. Many, if not most, surfers don’t have a lot of money to spend because of their age and employment status, so it seems logical that they would be looking for a good purchase price. In my area, there is a discount surfshop, which initially was very small, but now has grown substantially. So maybe that’s one avenue to be explored, start out small, have good prices, and grow.

greeneboards

Oahu

Apr 27, 2005, 12:22 AM

Re: [Tony] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

There’s a small shop where I live that opened up next to an HIC, they’re doing great. They don’t sell clothes at all, just boards and other surfboard related things like wax, fins, videos, etc. They have been expanding, every time I go there they add on, I think in the next couple of years they will have the whole complex there in. Their prices aren’t all that bad, fins are retail but the boards go for reasonable prices and they will usually knock $100-200 off the sticker price for me if I pay cash and the owners are just good people, that is the reason why so many people go back.

PeteC

Dana Point, CA

Enthusiast

Re: [Tony] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

Many so-called discount surfshops are very often related to a regular retail place (heavy name-brand types per Doc). They just take last year’s clothing/wetsuits from the regular store and move them to the new place with 25-40% off (to try and break even). It’s easier to just have another place rather than trying to find a buyer for old merchandise (usually those guys who sell at swap meets). Discount shops also sometimes sell boards and accessories from small-scale local manufacturers (not 1st quality stuff). It’s interesting in Doc’s article about the shoes. You can always tell if the discount store is connected to a bigger place by the amount of shoe inventory. I’m also told that girls/women’s surf clothing is a worse retail deal than the shoes.

I think the main consideration in opening a surfshop is the profit margins on boards. There is a very high density of manufacturers and retailers in my area. The average margin on a board is about 35%. No other business I know of would take on anything with only a 35% return. Most of the people I know in the industry who have been doing it for over 10 years and just get by, rationalize that at least it’s kept them from submitting to the corporate culture. They’re so twisted by the surf business that they’d never last one day in that environment anyhow so they really don’t have an alternative. If you want time for surf and board building, start a business that will make real money and give you more free time. You won’t get either in the surf biz, and may even wind up hating surfing in the end.

solosurfer

Addict

Re: [Coque] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

My personal opinion on the future of surfshops, is like the little shop someone mentioned that was next to HIC. Small shops, selling their own brands directly from manufacturer to the public. They can keep prices down and make nice margin. Low margins on surfboards do not mean much if you have a board that sell and the ability to sell. Think about it. If you mark a board up $100.00 you have to sell four pair of boardshorts at full price to make the same $100.00. A good shop even in an area of lower interest should be able to sell a minimum of 35 boards a month. The best is to team up with a good shaper and do a lot of customs. You don’t need as much inventory then. Used boards are great, but some of the junk on the market will stink up your shop if you are not careful.

If you look around, you can get your own boardshorts made for about $10 with your label. You are then promoting yourself and not Quik or the other sellout brands. Remember, most of these companies are now going direct to the customer. Why would you want to support your competition?

Don’t buy cheap backyard boards by non-experienced shapers. It will kill your reputation. Better to go with the best available and pay the price and get the markup. You don’t want all the business, just your own share. If what you have is good. The rest will come around.

This is controversial, but I would never sell another pointed nosed shortboard from my own shop again. They are simply not the right choice for most surfers and the surfers that will pay don’t ride them. They ride longboards and wider, thicker, shorter boards. Most, except for a few over 30 that feel riding a pointed nose is still a sign of being able to cut it. Most of the rest opt for more waves and better float.

Educate your surfboard customers. You will never go wrong selling a beginner the right board in place of the popular board, and if they insist on the popular board that will not float them. Ask to pass on the sale. I have had this make customers who later trust you and will buy most of their goods from you because you were not simply trying to make a sale.

Do not hire employees until you absolutely have to and when you do expect stuff to walk off the racks and for discounts to be given when you are not around. Best to hire family and even then…

If it don’t make sense; there’s a buck in it somewhere.

Peter

Apr 27, 2005, 6:14 AM

Re: [solosurfer] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

Hey solo….good stuff! You can’t learn this stuff in an MBA curriculum…there’s an opportunity in there between the lines but haven’t had the bulb go off yet…

There’s a local longtime shop in my area that recently re-modeled the store with a bit of an expansion. I gotta admit it looks great but 95% of the inventory is expensive name brand clothing (that’s ok) and he has a nice inventory of name brand boards (CI, Lost, etc)…the boards don’t sell very fast but at least he carries them…overall, it’s a good shop run by a real surfer (and businessman) and I’m happy for the guy.

doc
Cape
CodBarnacle

Re: [solosurfer] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc. Let me add a little- Solo and I are putting this together from our years in the biz, some of it has been said before and some is new -

“Discounts” - Look, you knock $100 off a board, that is basically all the profit, unless you are marking them up to an obscene degree. Typical markup is more like list price +shipping/boxing/etc + color charge + fin charge + $50-75 = retail. That keeps you competitive. A $100 discount on a board with that markup? Good freakin’ luck. Oh, and lets not forget that anybody buys a board, they expect a t-shirt, wax-for-life and a cord to come with it. And if they don’t get it, see ya.

Easy credit terms from a boardmaker? Fat chance, unless you are doing literally hundreds of boards with them. Most other “surf” companies too, and their credit terms make Rocco on the corner with his “vigorish” look kind and generous.

Backyard boards. I don’t carry ‘em and I warn people I don’t stand behind repairs on some that are extra cheesy. Protect yourself by protecting your customers. Let somebody else subsidize a garage shaper’s learning curve.

The real money is in what’s “keystone” priced: accessories, etc. That is a 100% markup over wholesale. Your own label, providing that the stuff doesn’t explode when it gets wet, is a beautiful thing. You get money for it and it does your advertising for you. Maybe make a little less than keystone on it, if it is a good, durable, well-made product, cos then your credibility goes through the roof. And street credibility is everything in this biz.

Some people will come through your door and they want a Quickabong t-shirt and they won’t be satisfied with anything else. They will leave when you don’t have it. That’s show biz. You can’t carry everything and you shouldn’t try.

Advertising…look, for an easy demonstration of how advertising works, go out on the street with a wad of one dollar bills. Take a pen and write your name on each dollar bill. Hand them out to passers by. Soon, the money is gone, a few have made second passes and called in their friends to take a bite out of the sucker, and you have nothing.

Almost all ads, print or radio or whatever, are like that, you are throwing your money away. If you like seeing your name in print, neat, do up a word processor document and put your name on it a zillion times and print it out again and again until you run out of ink. Like hearing your name? Get a bunch of people to say it on a microphone and play it back. Much cheaper and it accomplishes just as much. Think about how much you have to sell to pay for the store, the product, the utilities, the other expenses, the insurance, the salaries…and the damn advertising. Right, your one ad dollar has to generate $100 in sales to justify itself…and it never does.

A possible exception to that: websites. If they can generate sales straight off the site, all you have to do is ship the items and check your bank statement. Only works if you can be competitive on prices. And bear in mind that one of the things I do is write and sell e-commerce websites, so my perception is skewed.

Egos - lots of people want to own a surfshop and boost their egos, same as in the restaurant biz and bar biz. Those don’t last long, cos they don’t get that it’s business, not personal. Don’t get your ego tied up in it, you’ll only hurt in the end.

Non-sales - absolutely right! You wanna be there for the long haul, so you want to make a base of customers who think you are the absolute nutz. The go-to guy if they have a question. I sometimes remark to my customers - ” Look, you ever have anybody try so hard NOT to sell ya something?” - it’s true. Do well by them by not selling ‘em something that’s wrong for ‘em and you have their business and their word of mouth forever. Sell them something that is wrong for ‘em, without a disclaimer at least, and you will be paying for it forever in bad word of mouth, and you never make up for that.

Every customer, every sale, is gonna make or break your business. Each and every one. With the exception of the Spicolis of this world, they all have memories. And they all have friends. Blow it, tick one off, and he and all his friends will be your adversaries, forever. Be polite, be generous with your time, knowledge and patience. That is what you are really selling.

You are not in the surf business; you are in the people business. Write that on the back of your hand and refer to it every 10 minutes.

Keeping employees honest - tough. You have to decide between the duds who are too dumb to steal and the ones who are smart enough to do the job right but also smart enough to rob you blind or give the store away to their buddies. Trust, but make it difficult to steal. Set up so you are the only guy who can give out freebies and nobody else, or authorise a freebie. There are a certain number of bars of free wax you have to give out to selected visitors, a few free t-shirts, that’s unavoidable. But limit it to the ones who will bring it back a hundred fold.

Reps - Some are gems, some are exactly as described, forever-teenaged clowns who want to play surfer forever. Good rule of thumb - the rep who tells you a line isn’t right for ya, him you can trust when something is right for ya.

Up above, I mentioned being good to the customers who will ‘bring it back a hundred fold. Ok, that is not the 17-year-old kid who surfs better than anybody else in the area. He will want his boards free, everything else free and stuff for all his buddies too. To blazes with him, he will bring in zero business and just be a drain on ya.

The guys to be good to? The 30-50 year old cats who can surf badly to ok, who get no respect, who have the money. They buy stuff, they don’t need credit terms, they buy stuff every year and they talk to each other a lot. Look at the email listservs on surfing, who is on ‘em and exchanging info. And talking about the stuff they just bought and who from. Ah huh, it’s not the modern day spicoli-duude equivalents, it’s the older cats. Treat them well, have a coffee pot and paper cups for ‘em.

Also, beach attendants and lifeguards. Somebody is new in town and they want to know where to go, who are they gonna ask? If they have friends coming in and the friends need rental boards, who will they ask? Ah huh - you got it. Freebie hats and t-shirts, no problem.

Now, you sell a board, and you make a few bucks, and it’s gone forever. Rent a board, you make a few bucks and it comes back and you can do it all over again. And you get a new customer-for-life if you don’t blow it. Again, generosity with your time and knowledge is key.

Used boards- Dood McDude has a 6′2″ thruster he wants to sell, cheap money. Reason is, he has thrashed it. You don’t want it. It’s in lousy shape, your reputation will suffer. A 7′8″ fun shape, on the other hand, in decent condition? Oh yeah, bring it on. That is the board for the guy in his early 30s that is just graduating from your rental fleet. And the start of a long and happy retail relationship.

Anyhow - that’s a few….. much more to come.

doc….
alloo
San Antonio, TX

Re: [meecrafty] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

Most surfshops I know make higher margins on clothing and accessories, which allow them to stay in business. The so-called sell outs are making buckets of cash. What I think hasn’t been stated is maintaining your shop, keeping the books clean, the legal requirements of running a business, managing employees, the building and zoning codes of your building and maintaining inventory. It’s hard work. Don’t forget the money needed and the P/L part, too.

Aloha,

Al
doc
Cape Cod
Barnacle

Re: [solosurfer] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc. Doing this…Let’s call it tail-first, to be polite, let me add a little to what Solo has put very, very well -

Why in heaven’s name would you want to open a surfshop? The money is lousy, the competition is cutthroat and as for the amenities…..

Picture yourself finishing up work, driving to the beach, taking your board and having a great session……

Wrong. You didn’t get out before dark, cos you wanted to check the inventory. And do the books, and make the bank deposit, check over the sales slips, look through the catalogs, etc, etc. A couple of customers stayed late and you couldn’t throw ‘em out.

Wrong. You get to the beach, one of your customers is out of wax, so ya give him some and talk for a bit- customer relations, if you blow him off neither he nor his numerous friends will ever give you ten cents, ever again. Another customer comes along and has a bitch about something trivial, but it eats into your time, and all of a sudden, it’s dark.

Wrong. You left Dood McDude at the shop and he walked off and forgot to lock the door, so a lot more stuff walked off too, besides the $20 he tucked into his pocket for beer money.

Wrong. You got some time, but the “team kids” from the other shop down the street got playful and keyed your truck, let the air out of at least 2 tires and generally had a good time stuffing seaweed and what was once dog food into your air intake. And stole the Walkman out of your truck cab.

It can all happen. And I have seen it happen. Really. All of the above not only happened, it happened to me. And I would like to think I am one of the nicer guys in this biz around here.

It is both a real business and a child’s game with childish people in it. Myself not least of all. It can be a hell of a good time and a money pit. Some places, with some competitors, you will go down the tubes even if you do everything right, because somebody with more money behind them will keep pouring that money in to cover his losses just to beat you.

It happens.

Make an intelligent decision here: Let’s say you are making a buck mowing lawns. Lowball that, you have five grand tied up in truck, trailer and a couple industrial mowers, you charge $75 a lawn and you can do a half dozen lawns a day. Call it $20 a day for gas, another $20 a day in amortized maintenance. And you can blow off a day now and then when the waves are good. Let’s say you are clearing $300 a day. And getting a great tan.

Ok, now, you have a surfshop. Open seven days a week. Inventory costs, around $40 grand. Plus interest. Rent, utilities, licenses, insurance, all that, it costs you an easy $100 a day. Between boards, giveaways and stuff that won’t sell, you are clearing 25-30 cents on the dollar for what you sell. That is, for every ten bucks that goes across your counter you get to keep $2.50. Ok, how much do you have to sell to equal what you could make following a lawnmower around? Ah huh. $1200 in retail sales. Blow off a day to surf, and 20% of your customer base just went away. You start getting kinda white and pasty too.

Bummer, huh?

It can be a great time. If you are not feeding the wife and kids and needing that income. If you yourself are not depending on the income to eat and pay your personal bills. If nobody is playing cheesy little games. If nobody has a king of the hill ego problem.

It’s a people business. You’re not selling penicillin here, something people can’t live without. You’re not coming up with a cure for cancer in the back room. Nobody ever died cos they couldn’t have a surfboard that minute. They can shop around; they don’t have to buy from you and only you. Now you can order surf stuff online, and they really don’t need you at all.

People have to like you for you to stay in business, and you have to like them, even when they are childish, wrong or plain stupid. And you have to be relentlessly good, kind and helpful. No matter what they say to you or about you. Cos they can get the same stuff elsewhere, maybe cheaper. You have to add value somehow, with your time and advice and personality.

Do you like people?

Do you have enough so that you can suck it up and survive for a few years while you get established? And buy inventory? And hold it over for a while? And wait for the competition to give up on driving you out of business?

Right. Do you have the business acumen to make a marginal business, a lousy credit risk by the way - try getting a business loan for a surfshop, off the ground? Chase down the best deals on credit card services? Beat down the margins on product? And services? Cos the margins can kill ya or save ya. 2% difference on credit card charges can make the difference between your getting away to Panama for a month in winter or waiting tables at night to keep eating. That’s about 2% of your annual gross, you see.

And there is a whole lot of stuff like that.

So- you are bound and determined to get into the surf biz still, eh? Well, either you’re crazy or you just might make it.

Stick around, then. And Solo and I can maybe help you make a go of it.

hope it’s of use

doc…

tomatdaum
Lowers
Enthusiast

Re: [doc] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

Okay, I’ve got some experience in this field, although it is dated. I managed La Jolla Surf Systems from 1983 to 1986. We had the exclusive for Channel Islands in San Diego County. Rusty’s wife Angie was his fiancé and our women’s department manager. We used to sell Mach 7-7s by the truckload. We couldn’t get boards fast enough from Rusty or C.I.. We put out a mail order catalogue that every reader of Surfing and Surfer Magazine received. We initiated the YMCA Surf Series for the local community. Oh yeah, and we sponsored David Eggers.

Things that make it work:

1) Location

2) Knowledgeable and friendly employees

3) Lot’s of reserve capital

4) A strong relationship with your board manufacturer

5) Community involvement

6) Lot’s of T-shirts, disposable sandals and sun protection products

7) An understanding of the cost per square foot to turn ratio for any given product

Quality is key. Sell quality inexpensively. Never sell cheap. It will bite you in the ass.

9) An off-season supplemental (i.e. catalogue sales and youth surf organizations)

10) A good rental program and surf lessons

Things that don’t work:

1) Shops squirreled away in dried-up strip malls

2) I’m Bob Bitch’n attitudes.

3) Going deeply into debt to make your dream happen

4) Trying to look grass roots while selling corporate BS

5) Pissing off the neighbors and creating an atmosphere most mothers feel uncomfortable around

6) Women’s Fashions

7) Taking up space with merchandise that does not turn at a profit

Products that fail to meet expectations are a death knell.

9) Not paying your taxes is not as a plan to make it through winter

10) Not having property and liability insurance

mottola

central floor id a

Journeyman

Re: [tomatdaum] How to open a surfshop or why not to. Series With Doc.

I like shops that have a nice fitting room with a door that locks, and plenty of room to wiggle around when trying on wetsuits. you might want to keep that in mind, even if you don’t sell clothes.

-rick
Lawless
Member

Re: [doc] BBQ, Tallboys and dead dreams

Boy Doc,

I enjoy reading your end of it. Well put. As for not losing your shirt: I am still trying to figure that one out. Some of us have to tank a couple of times to figure it out. Better to listen to others who have made the mistakes first.

I personally think doing business with the name brands is a waste of time. You are not building anything unique or your own. You’re doing the same thing every other shop owner thinks he must do to keep his doors open. The truth is: Those brands help sales in the short run, but the brands end up controlling you and they will sell their own mothers down the river for an extra buck from your new competitor around the block who promised $10,000 orders instead of your $3000 a season orders. Heck, they will open them more money or not many times. You cannot trust any of these name brand clothing companies nor can you trust the name brand surfboard companies. You could do what some call a hardcore shop, and carry only second rate lines that have shipping problems and billing problems, but the word hardcore in the surf business is defined usually by; One step ahead of the tax man or an eviction notice.

If you are going to have to wait out becoming established and work your arse off to stay in business. Why not work at promoting your own name clothing and selling quality surfboards that are functional and will last. Even better, be innovative yourself. Become a leader and the sheep will follow. Most of the sheep are mindless anyway, so ring your goat bell to a better tone. Doc is right on the money with the people thing. If you’re informative really try and shoot straight with your customer, you will already being doing something better than 95% of the established shops out there. Don’t think for a minute these guys are genius or untouchable. They have simply been around since the early stages of the surf business and ridden the popularity of the sport. Few have been challenged because most of the competition simply does a smaller version of them anyway. Creativity is the future. You only need your share, not all of the business.

Something else about surfboards:(. This comes from a guy who has pretty much promoted two or three shapers exclusively for years). Don’t even promote the shaper’s label above your own. One day he may quit shaping or you may have a falling out and then you have to start over with a brand new label. Instead, get the good shapers to do your label or a label you own. Sorry, but you must protect yourself at all cost, because us humans have the bad habit of changing our minds.

When you give your word keep it regardless of how much it cost you. Integrity is rare in the surf business and you will stand out.

If it don’t make sense, there’s a buck in it somewhere.

Peter

Re: [solosurfer] BBQ, Tallboys and dead dreams

Very, very interesting stuff, Doc and Solo. Thanks for sharing your experience. Anyone considering getting into this business should listen to you guys carefully.

Can you name a few shops around the country that have managed to prosper in such a competitive, cutthroat business and give us your take on (i) why they have succeeded, (ii) what you admire about them or (iii) what you don’t admire about them.

A few shops that strike me as successful operations (irregardless of whether I like them or not - some I do, some I don’t) which run the spectrum from shaper-run operations to purveyors of tourist schlock and surfboards, which, however you characterize them, have survived despite the odds being against them based on the reasons you described. Again, irregardless of whether you like the shop or not, tell us what you think they have done that has enabled them to survive and, in some cases, even prosper?

Examples:

Infinity in Dana Point

Ron Jons in NJ & FL (I think I know what you’ll say about this one.)

Longboard House in Indialantic, FL.

Wave Riding Vehicles in Outer Banks

Green Room in SD

If you are familiar with them (or other examples) what do you think has enabled them to survive?

doc
Cape Cod
Barnacle

Re: [solosurfer] BBQ, Tallboys and dead dreams [

Oh, hell, man, I'm digging on what you're writing. Lots of it is “Damn, never thought about it that way.” Which is all to the good, every way you look at a problem is maybe another solution.

Some stuff: Not only will Quikabong or BillSilver sell to your competitor and freeze you out and leave ya with zero stock as the season starts and a scramble to get anything on your hangars for the season...heee, you'll love this...just before you do your back-to-school sales for the juvenile delinquents who actually wear the stuff, guess what. Quikabong Corporate dumps all their leftover stock for the season with one of the big chains, like Kmart. Fat discount.

Dood McDude may dig your shop, but his mother, Mrs. Gronsky (she divorced McDude senior years ago and is now on husband #3) is into Kmart, blue light specials and all. Or TJ Maxx, or whoever. If Junior wants Quikabong, he'll get it, but not from you.

Congratulations, you are the happy owner of four grand or more worth of Quikabong crappe' that Kmart is selling for less than you paid for it.

Same with big name boards, by the way. Maybe worse.

You’re better move is to get in with the local Parks and Rec people, do a few clinics or something, so Mrs. Gronsky thinks you are good guys and she doesn't object to Junior buying stuff that has your name on it. But not contests. You will get one happy winner and ten pissed kids for every heat. Bag all contests.

You can do a t-shirt with your name and logo on it, on a Beefy T or Anvil heavy cotton T for less than you pay for the Quikabong baled goods tees that will fall apart after they have been washed three times. And you keep your logo constant, no 2005 special editions unless they are really limited editions, and you carry your stock over year after year, no closeout sales.

And your name and logo are going all over. You could put it on a cheap 50/50 T, but hey, think of that extra buck a shirt as advertising and good will. They get something with your name on it, it better be good quality.

Find a good screener, buy your Ts through them, make your order waaaay in advance so that there are no last-minute panics. Screeners will give you great terms for off-season, no-rush orders. I know, I do a little rep work for one. You will get a far better color selection, your screens will be done better, you can set it up for a gross at the beginning of the season and another later and get a good price on the order as a whole, etc. The lowball price is low for a reason, again, spend money wisely, but spend more for much better quality.

On the other hand, try putting in an order for a gross of t-shirts, sent in on June 15th for July 4th weekend delivery and they will laugh in your face. Or showing up with your Crapwear bargain tees and want them printed when half will self-destruct in the screening process and then bitching when they do.

Get good vendors and treat them like gold. Because they are. Good vendors will help you, steer you right. Cos maybe you know everything there is to know about surfboards, but you know jack about clothing. Or vice versa.

“Established” is a lot. Discount all you want, but if you look dicey, if it looks like you may not be there next year to honor your implied warranties and promises, lots of people will look and wait for the going out of business sale. Be there like you plan on being there forever. Be upbeat, be positive, even if your books look like the economy during the Hoover Administration. Look established from the get-go, like you are there for the long run.

So will I, by the way, be there for the going out of business sale - great buys on inventory I might need when a bright-eyed dreamer goes under. Let some discounter have the clothes, those I don't need.

The surf companies are whores, and the customers are indeed sheep. However.....

There are whores who will lure you into an alley and roll ya and those who will give you something for your money and maybe a smile. Guess who gets repeat business.

As for the sheep - well, they need a shepherd. No rubber boot jokes, ok? The shepherd with a hundred sheep is the guy who will spend the time to find the one lost sheep and keep the wolves from it. The guy who doesn't has three sheep in his flock. Think about it. Take care of your sheep, don't shear 'em bloody, let 'em graze on decent fields and they (and you) will thrive.

Your competition, who hired Dood McDude to watch the store...well, ol' Dood is very impressed with himself, he hasn't got time for beginners, he blows 'em off and shoots the breeze with his buds who hang out at the place. He may be the hottest kid on the coast, but he's selling his employers down the river.

Cos you are downstream. Beginners, rookies, they come in, ok, educate 'em gently. Make them feel like they are not complete idiots. They are not, by the way. Think about it, before you became Mister Surfshop Guy, you were a newbie too, starry eyed and dumb as a rock. Still are dumb as a rock, if you're in the surf biz now. Somebody took the time with you, and now it's your turn. Do the right thing.

That, in fact, is a good rule in general. Do the Right Thing. Your customers are not the enemy. If they are not buying from ya, it's not their fault, it's yours, so fix it fer cryin' out loud. Like the man said: "Integrity is rare in the surf business and you will stand out"

So, stand out.

Doc
Cape Cod
Barnacle

Re: [bmg] BBQ, Tallboys and dead dreams

Ahmmm - let’s see…Infinity in Dana Point and Wave Riding Vehicles in Outer Banks: Manufacturers of boards who branched out some, went bigger. It can be a win if you’re smart about it. Both have been around a while and both have credibility from good ( if, in the case of the original Bob White WRVs, somewhat iconoclastic) boards back when. And if you had it then, means what you need to do is keep on keepin’ on without screwing up. The next step up is the Robert August mega-whatsit empire.

Longboard House in FL and I’ll throw in Longboard Grotto out on the other coast - specialists, niche merchants. They have done well, but if you bet your living on a niche it better be a good niche and you better be lucky. If the longboard thing had died after a couple years, you would never have heard of them. Remember that your taste, your niche, may or may not be enough to go on. Never confuse what you like with what sells. For instance, I’m a kneelo, but I’d be out of my mind to have a kneeboard-only shop. I’d be better off setting fire to my money.

I am not familiar with the Green Room, but let’s toss in Frog House instead. I won’t say “age and treachery will always defeat youth and skill,” more like if you stick with the business, come up right and pay attention, you can survive, though maybe not get rich.

Ron Jons - look, I have nothing against Ron Jons. Quantity has a quality all its own. I suspect they were heading south late one fall and saw the South of the Border billboards and realised that if ya go big and make yourself a name and a destination, you can make it in good times and bad. In a lot of ways they are industry pioneers and innovators. Might not be on the high end qualitatively , but definitely they lead the way on making bucks. They are not afraid to take a shot at something and take their lumps.

You hear a lot of whining about Ron Jons, but you don’t hear them whining. They know who their customer base is, and it’s everybody. They have tailored their business to that, not to the self-anointed hard core. Which is not dumb, by any means.

That help any?

doc…
pinhead
Member

Re: [doc] BBQ, Tallboys and dead dreams

Doc,

What about the clothing market for the over 35’s. Do they still wear surf clothes? My wife buys all my clothes - she knows to get me comfortable stuff for the beach. I only go into surfshops to get wax or wetsuits or look at boards. As for the clothes, when I see the identically dressed teenagers hanging around, I always think to myself “Man, that David Carson has a lot to answer for.” Most of the current stuff looks ridiculous on teenagers, let alone on someone my age. What’s your take on clothes for the over 35’s?

solosurfer

Addict

Re: [doc] BBQ, Tallboys and dead dreams

Even better than a shop is a small showroom for boards and related goods and Ebay plus your own site. Ebay for advertisement to millions. Linked to your own site and a showroom for you local customers. If you don’t get your own boardshorts….go for Birdwells and go fairly deep. They have been around awhile and you can be sure of what you’re getting. Your own tees and those of your board maker, unless that’s you, then specialize the surfboard tee.

Never under any conditions get into surf fashion. It’s way to iffy and has zip to do with our sport. It has never been anything but something made by vampire clothing companies to feed off of dumb kids looking for an identity they themselves do not have. I will let you guess who the two worst are. I would not even carry Hawaiian print shirts.

Employees: Hire non-surfers to watch counter when you are gone. Those with good grades work best. Especially ones that want the job because they need money, not because they dream about hanging in a surfshop. What many shops will call kuks, will be your best employees. Good surfers are the worst and young surfers in general. Your wife or kid is the best of all if they are into it.

Don’t waste your money on Surfer or Surfing magazines or any other magazine. They will look at them at your store and buy them from Barnes and Noble. Do not carry girls clothing unless you are a girl, and even then it’s not recommended. Girls are way smarter than guys. They will buy a name brand tee and then go to Wet Seal or Old Navy for fashion pieces or shop sales racks for Roxy. Girls taste changes like the tides. Girls are great surfboard customers if you treat them right. They will be more loyal than guys. Remember, the big shop down the street will have a hot surfer dude behind the counter who will hit on them or ignore them. A little time and patience will pay in this area.

If it don’t make sense, there’s a buck in it somewhere.

Peter